Should You Break Up A Real Street Fight?
Several years ago I was staying at a hotel in a small New Mexican town I used to live in.
This area is heavily populated with brutal gang members who traffic heroin from Mexico out into the rest of the United States.
I’d dealt with the gangs in the past as a security consultant and bodyguard and knew what they were capable of.
Around 1am, I was suddenly awakened from a sound sleep by a piercing scream in the hallway followed by a man’s voice yelling.
I jumped up and looked through my door’s peephole but couldn’t see anything in the hallway in front of my door.
When I heard the second scream, I slowly and cautiously opened my door and peeked out into the hallway to see a young man slapping a woman around and pulling her by her hair back into their hotel room, quickly closing the door.
Several other hotel visitors were looking out into the hallway as well and just shook their heads, closed the door, and basically went back to bed.
From the man and woman’s hotel room, I could hear him beating her up in a drunken rage and her muffled screams begging him to stop.
Fortunately, the guy in the room across from me had the same gut instinct I did…to help this woman out.
I told him to run down to the front desk and tell the attendant to call the police and then quickly come back. I didn’t feel this woman had time to wait for a response.
With both of us now at the door, we knocked, making sure we stood to the side because I knew that if he were one of the local gang members, he was most likely armed.
He came to the door and actually opened it up part way (alcohol really does make you do stupid things, doesn’t it?)
We immediately slammed the door open knocking him back as he fell down on the floor. As he tried to break his fall, I could see that there was nothing in his hands so no weapon had been drawn yet.
As he got up, we took advantage of his drunken, dumbfounded state to quickly motion the woman out of the room and she was safely escorted down to the front desk to wait for the police by the guy helping me.
Assessing the situation, the boyfriend had ended up sobbing, trying to convince me that it was all her fault so I decided to stay to keep him in sight and continued to talk with him about how “women be crazy” to keep him in his current non-threatening state. The last thing I wanted was to leave him alone and have him come charging back down the halls on a shooting rampage.
Eventually the police arrived and took him into custody without a fight.
Now…why do I share this story with you?
Well last week I was watching one of those “extreme video” shows on television and the entire show was dedicated to violent attacks caught on tape where observers just watched as someone else was getting beat up.
In some cases it was a guy who was beaten unconcious while his attacker kept punching and kicking away at him…
…in others, a woman may have been being beaten by her husband or boyfriend.
Whatever the scenario, for me, the message was clear and came in two parts:
1. There IS no real “right or wrong” when it comes to helping someone else out!
I know that sounds like the opposite of what I’ve been preaching in this article but the fact is you ALWAYS have to take into account the “unknown” in any fight.
It is VERY possible that you could end up being killed if you stick your nose in someone else’s business and try to break up a fight.
Did I make the smart move in helping that woman out of her hotel room? Maybe…maybe not.
I’ve intervened because I couldn’t NOT intervene. To some that may be brave and to others it may be stupid.
It turned out ok but it could just as easily ended with me bleeding all over the hotel hallway with everyone else shutting their doors to go back to sleep.
However, many of us, particularly soldiers, law enforcement, and firefighters, are preconditioned to jump to someone’s aid when they’re in trouble
All in all, I think it comes down to a personal gut instinct that can’t be ignored one way or the other.
But here’s the REAL LESSON I want to get across…
2. NEVER expect anyone to rush in to help you if you’re being attacked!
It’s just a plain fact…99% of the people out there won’t do a damn thing but stand there and watch you and your family get brutalized.
Maybe it’s their fear of being hurt themselves…maybe they don’t want to “get involved”…or maybe they’re just smarter than I am!
Nonetheless, I’ve seen enough camera footage of assualts to know that witnesses hardly EVER come to your aid.
Find a self defense program that teaches you to train as if your life depends upon your own skills…because you certainly won’t be able to depend on anyone else!
You’re quite right, most ‘witnesses’ would walk on by or stand and look (until the cops finally show). But you need the mental equipment (training) and / or the weapons handy to ‘get involved’. And even then it’s a risk, but some will thankfully take.
I think it was a great and noble thing to help some who was defenseless. The reason behind most attacks is that the “victim” can’t or won’t fight back. For whatever reason, some people even think they must deserve that kind of treatment.
But give a “victim” some skills to have a fighting chance and see the violence stop.
Greg
if it one of my friends gettin the living hell beaten out of them or same big scum bag beating the day light out of same woman yes i would jump in and try to stop it right there with some back up if i could get some and if i dont i still would too
We must always help those that cannot help themselves…
My opinion is that you did the right thing. For some people it may not be… they may want to help but for reasons of their own, will not. I also think that you need to look at it with the philosophy similar to First Aid… ask if the person needs / wants assistance but if they are unable to respond, proceed with your best intentions and what your experience tells you is required for the situation.
Your initial response to direct someone to notify the police was also right on target. I guess I would just caution people to not try to be an action hero, ie be sensible and do not go overboard. Half of the responsibility and power is using the muscle between your ears. eg you sat and talked with the guy… very sensible.
Too many people today turn a blind eye. It is refreshing in our PC society to know that there are still a few of us that do what is needed regardless of consequences. I have stopped several fights over the years. I do not often have to get down and dirty as I have a piercing and commanding voice and a fairly intimidating Viking like presence that tends to diffuse the situations before they go any further. However part of the reason I am respected is the lack of hesitation. There is no sitting around debating what the consequences could be there is immediate and resounding action on my part most of the time that kind of presence just throws most bullies off their game.
Sounding in from the Lone Star State…
as much as i would like to think i will help out anyone in that sort of situation but the truth is i don’t think anyone truly knows how they will react when faced with that dilemma. About a year and a half ago here in Melbourne (Australia) a man who was part of a bikie gang started beating a young woman. Two innocent bystanders who came to the aid of this young woman suddenly had a gun turned to them. Eventually one of the men was fatally shot as well as the young woman while the other man (a backpacker) was severely injured in the shooting.
While people like to think they will help, what can transpire in these situations is unknown and can become fatal.
Baz brings up an important point!
Here’s a recent news story about a PROFESSIONAL who tried to “do the right thing”…
Stabbed off-duty cop tried to be peacemaker
Jaxon Van Derbeken, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, February 12, 2009
(02-11) 15:24 PST SAN FRANCISCO — The off-duty San Francisco police officer who was stabbed while riding his bicycle was attacked when he tried to intervene in a fight between two motorists, authorities said Wednesday.
Sgt. John Burke, 46, a 14-year veteran of the force, was riding near Haight and Steiner streets Tuesday afternoon when he came on the dispute, police said.
One of the motorists involved in the altercation was Nicholas Batchelor, 27, of San Mateo, said Sgt. Lyn Tomioka, a police spokeswoman. When Burke tried to break up the argument, Batchelor got out of his car and stabbed the off-duty officer in the upper chest, Tomioka said.
Burke, who is assigned to the department’s tactical squad, did not suffer life-threatening wounds, but he is expected to remain hospitalized for several days.
Batchelor was found nearby in his parked Cadillac after witnesses identified his license plate to police, Tomioka said.
He was arrested and a knife was recovered, police said. Batchelor was charged with attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and concealing evidence, authorities said.
I really believe in helping people. I was involved in a huge brawl with highschool kids about a week ago. They (atleast 10 or more) were jumping 2 middle school kids. Kicking them in the face after they already knocked them down. I just tried to break it up and then they turned on me to. I took a few blows initially but I had to hurt them back fast an hard regardless of their age. They basically tried to swarm me. But once I hurt a few of them they scattered. For me it was worth helping the other kids. The police said I did the right thing but should have called them first. I just reacted the way I thought was right.
Yes, I know of an incident that happened 4 blocks from where I live, back on New Year’s Day of 1988, where some guys tried to break up a fight and 2 of the good samaritans were stabbed to death.The police caught the killer, but the men who tried to stop the fight, 2 of them died.
My response would be legally in a grey area, but I wouldn’t think of that in a similar situation. Just couldn’t live with myself.
As a concealed carry holder, I am legal in most states that have a concealed carry law, I would deploy my weapon, actuate my laser sight in hopes of “de escalating” the situation, then command the assailant to cease.
If not then I would have no choice but to escalate to the discharge of my weapon, with a clear determination to placing effective shots.
My statement could only be that the continued aggressive and hostile actions perpetrated against the victim/recipient of said actions led me fear for the life the same, and the assailants continued actions necessitated my response.
I hope this never comes to pass.
I intervened when two guys I didn’t know were about to get into a knife fight. I convinced them to give their knives to their respective friends and fight “like men” with their fists. In the ensuing craziness (everyone started to brawl when one of the guys went down), I ended up getting my nose broken by some guy who I guess thought I was friends with one of the fighters. I don’t regret my decision, though. Noone was fatally injured and I felt I did my good deed for the day.
If you have skills that may improve any situation and you don’t use them, they are useless. You will never be wrong if you follow your heart.
Yes, I am sure someone can dream up some situation where another persons good intentions lead to disaster however; Someone with skills usually can make better choices than someone without.
My last experience was an ***hole who was beating up his pregnant wife holding an infant on a parking lot, I activated my car alarm system and intervene. Through his confusion and anger it distracted him and came after me and of course a 1-2 is applied and through past experience DO NOT LET HIM WALK AWAY IN SUBMISSION and 3 is applied out cold. Reason for that experience one walked away and came back with a gun and wounding a friend never again will an offender walk away, either in a strecher or cuffed by police.
My feeling is that most people don’t just jump up to help someone being beaten, for a number of reasons.
First, they are (unconsciously) balancing their identification with the victim and their sense of justice with their fear of the consequences and their compulsion to follow what other people in the situation are doing (which is usually nothing). Don’t underestimate that pack mentality factor, it is one of the things most responsible for people not being helped while a crowd gathers around to gawk or people close their shutters. People tend to get their cue from what others around them are doing when they aren’t sure what to do.
Second, they are also (consciously) weighing the consequences of being injured and killed for their own family. It’s not an entirely satisfying feeling for most of us to imagine that we bravely helped a stranger and left our own kids to fend for themselves.
If this dilemma concerns you, you have to learn how to assess situations to realistically know the risks and the right strategy going in, rather than just relying on whether it is supposedly the “right” thing to do in general to help a stranger. It’s a big help if you can actually help them and even better if you can do what Jeff did and defuse the situation. But it is a tragedy for all if you jump in and become the second victim. Knowing the difference is experience, not formal rules or ethics (alone). In my opinion.
Just so you know where I’m coming from, I’ve been various things in my life, including a police officer, a bouncer, a biker and a martial arts instructor. I don’t consider myself a violent person, but I have been on the receiving end of attacks involving knives, guns, and fists on more than one occasion. I tend to look at real world situations without much moralizing or worrying too much about legal niceties; the latter only matter if you get caught. (In any situation where there is violence involved and you’re the one who committed it, the last thing most of us should do is wait around for the cops to arrive, especially if none of the witnesses know you.)
Unless I was acting in some official capacity, if it’s just two guys slugging it out or hacking away at each other and I don’t know either of them, they’re pretty much on their own; minding your own business is conducive to good health where I come from, although I will watch out of professional interest and see if I can learn something new. If one is unconscious and the other is still apparently trying to kill him, I might intervene if I can do so without undue risk to yours truly. If I know both, I’ll probably intervene and try to make peace, even if that means whacking some sense into both them with a handy fencepost. If I’m friends with only one, and he looks like he’s losing badly and likely to get seriously hurt, I’ll intervene on his behalf, unexpectedly and violently (Think “boot to the head.” Nothing personal; that’s just what friends are for.). If it’s some clown beating a woman, I will intervene, even though the woman will sometimes actually join her assaulter in attacking her rescuer (happens more often than you’d think). If it’s a multiple attack on one guy, it depends; if he’s a friend, someone I know, or someone of my own race being attacked by a gang that is not one or more of the above, then I will intervene regardless of the risk; however, I would, in all honesty, probably hesitate to risk myself otherwise, beyond calling 911.
I feel what you done was right you followed all the protocols of citizens rights. We are in a world today that all people fear doing that extra effort to help their fellow citizen, due to the fact of the way the world is today, the all are afraid to stand up for themselves let alone anyone in distress. I work with the public and far to often to you see the common citizen standing off to the side like it is some freak show for them to observe, they dont even have enough tenacity to call the police, or even ask if everything is alright.
I have been in several situations where there are people standing there just watching these things happen to people, its a shame. I have to break up fights all the time whether it be two guys or two women. you always need to be aware of your surroundings and aware of the individuals in conflict, by all means if you are not trained in any aspects of martial arts or some kind of self-defense I would never recommend that you intervene.
Always understand that if you are going to put yourself in harms way make sure that there is a way out, or some means of preventing harm coming to you. Like we all know there are growing gangs everywhere and you may not know whether this person is involved with those gang related groups, never be a hero if you are not prepared for the consequences!
To this day I will always be a person that will intervene and help the innocent whether it be male or female, and even a child.
This evening for example I was at a bowling center and they were very busy and a large family or group came in and they looked like they were just at another party for the kids in the group, well they checked in and got their shoes and bowling balls and all of a sudden one of the adult males in the group grabbed a young boy by the arm and was jerking him around, and the boy seemed upset that he grabbed him like that, and with this place being so busy nobody really noticed this going on except for me and this young girl that was bowling with her family, well this guy continued to be abrasive with this boy and ended up slamming his head into the glass door and caused the boy to fall out. At that time I stepped in and asked the man if there was a problem, and he said for me to mind my own business, well that’s where it started to get interesting. I asked the man is that your son and he replied no he is my girlfriends son, I said well its time for you to stop handling him that way and you should step away from the boy, well I would assume that his ego got the best of him because he let the boy go and he got in my face. I told the boy to go out and sit outside of the center and wait there, well the guy decided he was going to bring the anger that he was giving the young boy on me I told him it would be best if he just calmed down and went back to bowling, well that did’nt happen and I had to restrain the guy and call the police. In the end the guy was charged with assault and the boy’s mother was in tears and the police resolved the matter.
It all goes back to whether you are condition to handle situations, being in the military with the special forces, we handled several disruptive individuals, and groups. So all in all you have to be able to ask yourself would you be happy if someone had the guts to help you out in a pinch, my answer is yes!
I’ve been faced with similar situation’s, some I took action ,and some I did not.In my case I went with my gut feeling. Some intervention’s went well, and then again some went like shi::, With what you did Sir. I would have interviend, whether you were right or wrong,as far as doing the right thing( well) I think it depends on how one feels after the fact ,if you didn’t do anything . My self,it would be hard to live with knowing I could have done something, and didn’t ..
The tacfull way you went about it was “Great”, I commend You for your intervention.You were very lucky to have some one else feel the way you did, in most cases “Man” your on your own.
I belive, the strong shall help the week !
estanislado;;
Yes, what you did was the RIGHT thing to do. Too many people stand idle. Wouldn’t any one of us want somebody to help us (there is always someone bigger and stronger)? I had a similar experince:
I was at a concert with my 11 y/o daughter. With plenty of people an plenty of alcohol. When it was over, the mad rush for the parking lot started. We were behind a group of young kids (late teens, early 20s). This one couple (guy and girl) were joking around; poking and pushing each other. When all of sudden the girl stepped in front of the dude and grabbed both sides of his face. He literally picked her up and threw her to the ground. He stood over top of her with arm cocked and fist clenched. He was a big dude, under the influence and I fully believe he was going to deck her. Their ‘friends’ were doing nothing. I hopped a barrier and I thought – I only have once chance to get this guy. I wrapped him up in a half-nelson (is that still a technique?) and brought him to the ground. By this time, other men were pound ing the crap out of him. My daughter was freaking out and now she is always worried when we go out that dad will get into a ‘fight.’ Had to have a long talk with her about doing the right thing.
What you did was the RIGHT thing to do Jeff. I’ve been in the same situation myself in my own neighbourhood, as well as while being out on the town. In my opinion and experience, there are far too many instances where people just stand by and watch. Now granted, I am a trained close quarter combatant, armed with the tools and capabilities to stand a fighting chance in those situations, but, far too many innocent victims suffer because no-one would intervene.
In the situation in my neighbourhood, my neighbour was assaulting his wife during a party they were holding. Nobody at the party did a DAMN thing to stop him. There were enough able bodied guys there to help, but none of them did. It was her sister that put up the biggest bloody fight. Shameful guys. I had to jump the fence and apply a rear naked choke, put him to sleep in less than 10 seconds.
My point is, if people stand by and do nothing, bullies get away with doing whatever they want and stamp down their dominance over everyone around them.
I wont stand for that on my watch, glad you wont either.
I know exactly what you mean. One time I was outside a club and there was a crowd of people watching a fight. As I approached I saw 2 men kicking an unconcious and snoring man on the ground. My instinct took over before I had a chance to think, I yelled with authority, “stop it”! One man turned to me and said, “do you want some too”? To which I replied, “I’m a medic and this man is having respratory difficulty, he’s going to die”. “Die in front of all these witnesses”! They tried to kick him a few more times but that comment totally took the wind out of their sails. I subsequently called an ambulance and the police. I assisted the victim until the ambulance arrived and the police arrested the assulters.
I once in my younger years I stopped a gang war “with 2 fingers”, yes your mind is the greatest aid you have. Sean Connery used his thumb!, On another occasion the most I had to tackle was 14, Brue Lee no!!, buy moving, blocking landing punches & or Kicks, with the adrenalin pumping and the mind allert I backed into a toilet cubical, “only one could face me at a time, I had the swing advantage—I had to stop afer messing up 3 attackers,, the fight was stopped by the call of “the Police are comming”, I walked away the victor. re The mind’s ability!!
ACTION CURES “FEAR”, INACTION CREATES “TERROR”
rgds
Glenn
The story mentioned above regarding Office John Burke is false.
Below is a link to the actual incident. Officer Burke was the one to start the fight.
http://sfpublicdefender.org/media/2010/03/jury-finds-man-acted-defense-offduty-officer/